Importing an EP3 Honda Civic Type R to the USA

"Jordan" (jordanbelljb) 09/08/2019 at 22:54 • Filed to: None

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The only way around the universally-loathed 25 year rule is the “ Show and Display” rule and the “Substantial Similarity” rule.

The substantial similarity rule dictates that the car being imported must be substantially similar to a model sold in the US. Given that the EP3 Civic Type R is closely related to the USDM Civic Si (they even have the same engine), will it be possible to import one? I drove one last year, and it blew me away.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Jordan 09/08/2019 at 23:11

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I don’t understand....why would you bother? Is this not the one we got in Canada? No LSD, not a high redline, normal torque to HP ratio. They’re cool and all but not nearly as special as any of the other Civic Si Type-R I know of. I would think it would have to be to fit the exemption you mention. At that point why bother with the expense of  importing one?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/08/2019 at 23:12

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Because he likes it? :)

I get your point for sure, but, as most petrolheads know w e don’t always buy our cars with logic, there’s a lot of love and feeling in there too! If he likes it and wants one, the heart wants what the heart wants, haha! :D

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 09/08/2019 at 23:22

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Thank you I completely agree with you, and my question should have been clearer. What I meant was from my understanding the US Civic Si of that gen was the same as the ‘Type R’ in our market which Jordan would import. I didn’t mean to say it was a poor choice, only that I was confused as to why he would want to pay to import something he can already get.

After a a quick google I found the JDM EP3 Type R is very different (while still quite similar) which makes Jordan’s question make more sense! 

SiennaMan > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/09/2019 at 00:42

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This is where a deep dive into the "substantially similar" rule is in order.  For instance,  if he were looking at a JDM one my assumption is that RHD instead of LHD would be enough to spoil any hope, but I genuinely don't know..

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 01:55

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You’ll have to do some deep and obscure research into how EP3 cars were actually produced at the Swindon plant. US cars have more stringent crash structure requirements than European cars, to the extent that even today USDM cars have significant structural enhancements over the RoW counterpart (hence the increased weight).

Visible examples include the bumperettes seen on the rear ends of current MB C-class, E-class, S-class and AMG GT coupes/convertibles, same with Porsches and Italian exotic cars. Front bumpers and side impact structures are also liable to be different.

Let us know when you find out more!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/09/2019 at 06:31

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No worries! I’m not a Civic expert by any means, I just happened to know the JDM Civic Type-R was quite different and took your comment the ‘why would he want that?’ way...my apologies! :)

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > SiennaMan 09/09/2019 at 06:33

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Yeah, that would be my worry...that the RHD vs L HD thing would spoil the import right away. That being said, I knew a friend of a friend of a friend in university that moved to Canada from the UK for school and to live here after they finished university. They had imported their 2008 or so Toyota Rav 4 (which is, of course, newer than the 15-year rule, even now) and were allowed to because it was similar to a model sold here.

MonkeePuzzle > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 09:24

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for the hassle and cost, a nice local EP3 could be sourced and the Type R interior swapped in. 

SiennaMan > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 09/09/2019 at 10:08

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A couple of thoughts immediately leap out at me with that example. First, from a vantage point in the US, I’ve long gotten the impression that Canada’s national laws are better written than in the US for a variety of reasons. Second, I would not be at all surprised if Canada’s 15 year rules have special allowances for cars imported by UK nationals emigrating to Canada. After all, such migration would have been actively encouraged in the past and Canada does have a much closer relationship with the UK than exists between most countries.

I don't want to be discouraging,  heck if there's a good loophole to the US 25 year rule, I'll want to know about it.   I guess I just have little faith that such loopholes exist, especially since I imagine the main purpose for that exception was to allow US residents to buy effectively identical model vehicles that just happened to have been sold in Canada new instead of the US..

Heyyou! > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 10:19

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The ep3 and the civic si are on completley different levels. They share a k series but the type r version is alot better. Even the suspension and weight reduction to the car its self. 

Zack James > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 09/09/2019 at 10:36

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The white hatch is clean 

Definitely an unloved chassis...however..you do get the captains cupholder on the left and it looks completely different from the other civics o f it’s generation.

Textured Soy Protein > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/09/2019 at 10:56

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What we got in the US as the Civic Si was sold in Canada as the Civic SiR. They were identical underneath to the base RSX of the time. But they are not the same as the Type-R, which was its own thing.

The EP3 Type-R had different versions for Europe and Japan. The Euro one was basically an RSX Type-S drivetrain and suspension in a seam-welded Civic hatchback body, the Japan one was the full Type-R treatment with a fully built motor, LSD, red Recaros, even stiffer suspension, etc. 

More details from Wikipedia ...

In 2001, Honda introduced the next generation of the Civic Type R as a unique 3-door hatchback to the UK market, which was manufactured in Swindon, England. This European Domestic Market Civic Type R featured a 200 PS (147 kW; 197 hp) 2.0-litre i-VTEC engine (K20A2) and the regular Type R treatment of seam welding, close ratio 6-speed transmission and upgraded brakes, but did not include some of the other higher-end features, such as the helical LSD and red Recaro race-seats, that were standard on the EK9.

However, Honda marketed a JDM ( Japanese domestic market ) version of the EP3 (which was exclusively manufactured in Swindon, UK and was shipped to Japan), which retained the highly renowned helical LSD similar to that of the EK9 and red Recaro race-seats. Other differences of the JDM model included a more track-oriented chassis/undercarriage settings as compared to the European model as well as a more powerful engine having a power output of 215 PS (158 kW; 212 hp) (designated K20A) had a fully balanced crankshaft assembly with different intake manifold, exhaust manifold, higher-lift camshafts, higher-compression pistons, chrome-moly flywheel and ECU programming. All of the Japan-spec K20A Type R powertrains were built in Japan and shipped to the Swindon plant to be installed in the Japan-spec Type-R EP3. The JDM EP3 was also available in the traditional Type R championship white while the EDM was not. The EDM has more relaxed gear ratios and some high rpm torque traded for low rpm torque compared to the JDM. [3] [4]

In 2003, the EP3 was updated with many improvements – revised EPS with quicker steering, revised suspension settings, projector headlamps (JDM came equipped with halogens only while the EDM came with an option for HIDs with self-leveling motors), lighter clutch and flywheel assembly etc. Based on Honda literature, this facelifted (FL) model was targeted at addressing customers’ and critics’ feedback such as understeer on the limit (due to the front MacPherson strut setup), numb steering response and lack of low end torque.

M.T. Blake > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 10:57

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Do what I did - buy a Toyota Sienna SE. It’s basically the same thing, but bigger, and with power doors. 

dogisbadob > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 10:57

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It can probably be registered as an Si

But even if you can’t do that, easy enough to swap in the motor you want

Textured Soy Protein > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 10:57

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To qualify under the “substantially similar” rule you need to formally petition NHTSA, which I don’t imagine is an easy process. 

BenseBuilt > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 11:34

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You would be foolish to do this for any purpose other than getting publicity.

You’d be better off getting one the 8th gen Civic Si engines+trans, and then just purchasing the type R 4th/5th/6th gears from Honda, and importing whichever the best K-series intake manifolds is.

The reason that engine appears to make more power than any of the other top-tier, later K-series is because they changed the formula for measuring horsepower around 2006 or something. 

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Textured Soy Protein 09/09/2019 at 12:51

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Thank you, that is what I found after some looking and I see why OP is interested. I hope the similar rule applies

Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 13:23

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Well JDM Integra Type-R’s don’t qualify as substantial similar to USDM Integra Type-R’s so I think you are out of luck. Best bet is buy a front cut Type R and swap everything you can to a USDM EP3.   

RacinBob > MonkeePuzzle 09/09/2019 at 13:36

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Ditto my thought. I believe the JDM R had the RSX-S 200 hp motor and 6 speed. Meanwhile the Si was about 160 hp K motor and a 5 speed. So if you want a type r civic, swap in the RSX motor and trans. 

VinceTek > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 15:45

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Hi, I live in the UK and have a couple of Type Rs including a European ep3 type r. It has a six speed box, 200 horse (40 more then the US SI) and revs to 8250rpm as standard. If you got one imported from mainland Europe the steering wheel would be on the left side of the car! If you can import one it would be well worth it :)

Yea ok. > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/09/2019 at 16:10

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The same reason people put hellcat engines in random vehicles like miatas, the 2020 supra, jeep wranglers... most anything  it semi fits... it's because they have money to waste.

Tripper > Textured Soy Protein 09/09/2019 at 16:14

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Came here to say this. It isn’t and you’ll almost certainly have to spend some money.

IanPaulsen > M.T. Blake 09/09/2019 at 18:16

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You sir, are the kind of man I wish I could be. However I don't think my penis is big enough. 

M.T. Blake > IanPaulsen 09/09/2019 at 19:38

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Buy a minivan and it becomes a solo jump rope. 

Gio > RacinBob 09/09/2019 at 19:56

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Not exactly true.I am from Europe,ex- owner of the ep3 with factory number R-00004(!).In my country importing cars from Japan was so easy,that at some point RHD vehicles was at 60% of all traffic on the roads i can say that JDM EP3 is not comparable to EUDM EP3.And an USDM Si is a joke TBH (SO ITS NOT WORTH TO BE CONSIDERED)

1. CURB WEIGHT

2. RECARO INTERIOR

3. LSD TRANNY

4. FOLDING MIRRORS

5. 215 hp k20 -absolute beast (jdm dc5 had the same engine)-USDM RSX TYPE-S never had this engine

That thing just flies,trust me.

RacinBob > Gio 09/09/2019 at 20:03

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Thanks for the derailed explanation. I learned something! So that engine was half way between the RSX -S engine and the S-2000. cool

Jordan > VinceTek 09/09/2019 at 21:27

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It honestly blew me away. I’ve only recently moved to the US from the UK. Last year, I had an EP2 Civic Sport 1.6. I expected the Type R I test drove to feel like a slightly faster version of my car, but it ended up being one of the best cars I’ve driven. Unfortunately, the insurance companies wouldn’t let me have one at 19 , so I settled for an E60 525d.

Gio > Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition 09/09/2019 at 21:29

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Very true!!!

Gio > RacinBob 09/09/2019 at 21:42

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Yeah,and dont forget shorter gearbox ,more rigid chassis more aggressive ecu mapping and honestly that JDM EP3 I drove felt like a proper race car i was hoping to find aftermarket goodies under the hood or elsewhere but could not.that son of b***h was bone stock!!!!

syaieya > Jordan 09/09/2019 at 23:15

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So it’d suck to wait, but I’m kinda in the same boat thinking about a series 8 FD RX7.

2001's 25 year rule is only 6 years away. Importing will be much more viable then , and everything you want about the car will be turn key instead of vulturing one to make a US tribute.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Jordan 09/10/2019 at 00:03

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I looked up information on this, you basically need a vehicle that says it conforms to the FMVSS as well as the EPA, or a letter from the manufacturer of the car saying it would. Basically Canadian and some Mexican market cars qualify as substantially equivalent.

You would have to do what McM did with their Mira.

Flavien Vidal > Jordan 09/10/2019 at 07:15

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To make things simple: No. No, you can’t and no, they aren’t considered as “substantially similar”... Substantially similar in NHTSA vocabulary means “exactly the same”, which is why it won’t work.

maynardDRIVESfast80 > Jordan 09/10/2019 at 08:41

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As a former owner of a usdm EP3 that tried his best to track it, there are way better civic generations than this one. Now The EP3 is arguably the best looking of the hatchback civics, but man that suspension is horrendously designed. You can’t just put some lowering springs or coil overs on it and expect it to drive well. Doing so totally screws the suspension geometry. You must, must, must get roll center adjusters for a lowered EP3 to drive correctly/safely. Also, removing the whole subframe just to do a clutch install was maddening. Anyway, not trying to burst your bubble. I got many compliments on my own EP3, and enjoyed it for a time, but then I bought an Evo...

ihm96 > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 09/10/2019 at 11:56

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I hate those bumper ettes with a passion. I’m very happy that my Z3 Coupe is one of the ones without the stupid bumper ettes tacked onto the hatch. Working at mercedes and seeing them constantly is so annoying. For whatever reason though they seem to only be on AMGs or 2 Doors, not the regular C and E sedans

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > ihm96 09/10/2019 at 12:15

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That’s because on the C/E/S-class sedans, the license plates are on the trunk lid. So the bumper has a clean surface and the structural differences are hidden inside (they probably have the same 5-mph bumperettes, just hidden from view).

My Cayman, F355 and 4C all have them because the rear license plates are mounted on the bumper cover. Out of all of them, the US/CAN F355 tries the best to disguise them, opting for a different bumper cover design from the RoW cars to hide the bumperettes with a smaller license plate area: